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	<title>Comments on: RPP-100: Defining Game</title>
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	<description>Better Gaming by Design</description>
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		<title>By: MadBrew</title>
		<link>http://madbrewlabs.com/rpp-100-defining-game/#comment-2677</link>
		<dc:creator>MadBrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 04:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madbrewlabs.com/?p=830#comment-2677</guid>
		<description>@Morten: This is definitely the way I am leaning.  I think that single player adventure games try to simulate roleplaying games by using familiar settings and mechanics but pretty much eliminate the free improvisation and player interaction allowed in &quot;true&quot; roleplaying games.

I think the MMOs, be they graphical or text come far closer, and could facilitate roleplaying with one caveat: you cannot freely interact with much of the digital representation of the game world.  In WoW, you can only interact with the environment as much as the programmers have allowed, and even then, it is not permanent.

It is hard for me to put into words, but a WoW character can &lt;em&gt;pretend&lt;/em&gt; to interact in a fashion not covered by the game&#039;s programming by &lt;em&gt;declaring&lt;/em&gt; in chat that he is doing so and the involved players then &lt;em&gt;imagine&lt;/em&gt; these actions occurring, then you have achieved roleplaying.

But if you take RP down to a pure chat level, as in those involved imagine the actions you describe, then WoW becomes mere wallpaper at a virtual table top.

Some MUDs, specifically of the MUSH and MUU variety, do give players programmatic control over objects though.  Players can modify the descriptions of their surroundings without bounds, which I think provides a true roleplaying experience, as well as one the game actually supports.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Morten: This is definitely the way I am leaning.  I think that single player adventure games try to simulate roleplaying games by using familiar settings and mechanics but pretty much eliminate the free improvisation and player interaction allowed in &#8220;true&#8221; roleplaying games.</p>
<p>I think the MMOs, be they graphical or text come far closer, and could facilitate roleplaying with one caveat: you cannot freely interact with much of the digital representation of the game world.  In WoW, you can only interact with the environment as much as the programmers have allowed, and even then, it is not permanent.</p>
<p>It is hard for me to put into words, but a WoW character can <em>pretend</em> to interact in a fashion not covered by the game&#8217;s programming by <em>declaring</em> in chat that he is doing so and the involved players then <em>imagine</em> these actions occurring, then you have achieved roleplaying.</p>
<p>But if you take RP down to a pure chat level, as in those involved imagine the actions you describe, then WoW becomes mere wallpaper at a virtual table top.</p>
<p>Some MUDs, specifically of the MUSH and MUU variety, do give players programmatic control over objects though.  Players can modify the descriptions of their surroundings without bounds, which I think provides a true roleplaying experience, as well as one the game actually supports.</p>
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		<title>By: Morten Greis</title>
		<link>http://madbrewlabs.com/rpp-100-defining-game/#comment-2676</link>
		<dc:creator>Morten Greis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madbrewlabs.com/?p=830#comment-2676</guid>
		<description>I like that concept &quot;true roleplaying games&quot; and thus there are &quot;false roleplaying games&quot; ;)

I haven&#039;t really seen any satisfying definition yet, that can rule out CRPG, but perhaps we would need to put up some definitions regarding computer games, as not all computer labeled as roleplaying games are what I would consider rpg&#039;s? I&#039;m still in favor of considering games such as WoW and MUD&#039;s for roleplaying games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that concept &#8220;true roleplaying games&#8221; and thus there are &#8220;false roleplaying games&#8221; ;)</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t really seen any satisfying definition yet, that can rule out CRPG, but perhaps we would need to put up some definitions regarding computer games, as not all computer labeled as roleplaying games are what I would consider rpg&#8217;s? I&#8217;m still in favor of considering games such as WoW and MUD&#8217;s for roleplaying games.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MadBrew</title>
		<link>http://madbrewlabs.com/rpp-100-defining-game/#comment-2675</link>
		<dc:creator>MadBrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 15:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madbrewlabs.com/?p=830#comment-2675</guid>
		<description>I should note that after closer insepection, CRPGs are not classified as true roleplaying games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should note that after closer insepection, CRPGs are not classified as true roleplaying games.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MadBrew</title>
		<link>http://madbrewlabs.com/rpp-100-defining-game/#comment-2674</link>
		<dc:creator>MadBrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madbrewlabs.com/?p=830#comment-2674</guid>
		<description>@Marten Greis: In working up for the next article, I had come across the International Journal of Roleplaying, but missed the MIT and Scandinavian sites.  Thanks for the links to those!

I do believe that LARP and computer RPG games fit in my definition of a Roleplaying Game.  They are just more specific genres.  Look for RPP-101: Defining Roleplaying Games to post early next week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Marten Greis: In working up for the next article, I had come across the International Journal of Roleplaying, but missed the MIT and Scandinavian sites.  Thanks for the links to those!</p>
<p>I do believe that LARP and computer RPG games fit in my definition of a Roleplaying Game.  They are just more specific genres.  Look for RPP-101: Defining Roleplaying Games to post early next week.</p>
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		<title>By: Morten Greis</title>
		<link>http://madbrewlabs.com/rpp-100-defining-game/#comment-2673</link>
		<dc:creator>Morten Greis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madbrewlabs.com/?p=830#comment-2673</guid>
		<description>Hi,

Defining roleplaying is always an interesting endeavor. You state that no offical regulatory body has stepped forward to define RPG&#039;s, and as such I agree with you, but none the less, there are some attempts. You don&#039;t adress any research, and I am therefore uncertain as to wether or not you are aware of the following products:
International Journal of Roleplaying: http://marinkacopier.nl/ijrp/?p=45
First Person: http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&amp;tid=9908
Second Person: http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&amp;tid=11000

The Scandinavian Conventionbooks, The Knutepunkt Books (in English):
Vol 1.: http://www.laivforum.dk/kp03_book/
Vol 2.: http://www.ropecon.fi/brap/
Vol 3.: http://knutepunkt.laiv.org/kp05/
Vol 4.: http://jeepen.org/kpbook/
Vol 5.: http://www.liveforum.dk/kp07book/
Vol 6.: http://solmukohta.org/pmwiki.php/Book/Book

Also will your definition of RPG&#039;s include Larps and Computer-based RPG&#039;s such as World of Warcraft?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>Defining roleplaying is always an interesting endeavor. You state that no offical regulatory body has stepped forward to define RPG&#8217;s, and as such I agree with you, but none the less, there are some attempts. You don&#8217;t adress any research, and I am therefore uncertain as to wether or not you are aware of the following products:<br />
International Journal of Roleplaying: <a href="http://marinkacopier.nl/ijrp/?p=45" rel="nofollow">http://marinkacopier.nl/ijrp/?p=45</a><br />
First Person: <a href="http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&#038;tid=9908" rel="nofollow">http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&#038;tid=9908</a><br />
Second Person: <a href="http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&#038;tid=11000" rel="nofollow">http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&#038;tid=11000</a></p>
<p>The Scandinavian Conventionbooks, The Knutepunkt Books (in English):<br />
Vol 1.: <a href="http://www.laivforum.dk/kp03_book/" rel="nofollow">http://www.laivforum.dk/kp03_book/</a><br />
Vol 2.: <a href="http://www.ropecon.fi/brap/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ropecon.fi/brap/</a><br />
Vol 3.: <a href="http://knutepunkt.laiv.org/kp05/" rel="nofollow">http://knutepunkt.laiv.org/kp05/</a><br />
Vol 4.: <a href="http://jeepen.org/kpbook/" rel="nofollow">http://jeepen.org/kpbook/</a><br />
Vol 5.: <a href="http://www.liveforum.dk/kp07book/" rel="nofollow">http://www.liveforum.dk/kp07book/</a><br />
Vol 6.: <a href="http://solmukohta.org/pmwiki.php/Book/Book" rel="nofollow">http://solmukohta.org/pmwiki.php/Book/Book</a></p>
<p>Also will your definition of RPG&#8217;s include Larps and Computer-based RPG&#8217;s such as World of Warcraft?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MadBrew</title>
		<link>http://madbrewlabs.com/rpp-100-defining-game/#comment-2672</link>
		<dc:creator>MadBrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madbrewlabs.com/?p=830#comment-2672</guid>
		<description>@SuperSooga: Thanks!  I really want to look at design &amp; playing style philosophies with this series, but I realized I really needed to start at ground zero and work up to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SuperSooga: Thanks!  I really want to look at design &#038; playing style philosophies with this series, but I realized I really needed to start at ground zero and work up to that.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SuperSooga</title>
		<link>http://madbrewlabs.com/rpp-100-defining-game/#comment-2671</link>
		<dc:creator>SuperSooga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madbrewlabs.com/?p=830#comment-2671</guid>
		<description>An ambitious post indeed... but I&#039;d call it a success! Interesting stuff.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;SuperSooga’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://soogagames.blogspot.com/2009/01/creating-combat-styles.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Creating Combat Styles&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An ambitious post indeed&#8230; but I&#8217;d call it a success! Interesting stuff.</p>
<p><abbr><em>SuperSooga’s last blog post..<a href="http://soogagames.blogspot.com/2009/01/creating-combat-styles.html" rel="nofollow">Creating Combat Styles</a></em></abbr></p>
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